Author Topic: Naturist zone  (Read 3107 times)

FrenchBob

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Naturist zone
« on: May 10, 2017, 06:33:32 PM »
Phil,

Thanks for your many years of making and keeping the map up-to-date.

I think it is very useful to use to promote Vera Playa and was one of the reasons I came here to take a look and finally move here.

One question, and I do not mean to open up any "culture wars" if it should be a "touchy" subject; Why do you end the Naturist south zone on the map near the beach by "The Mirador de Vera" ?

Everything I can find on the web tells me that the Naturist zone is much farther south.
For example the (very old) site http://www.veraplaya.info/beachguide.html states that it, "The naturist beach runs from a point slightly north of the Vera Playa Club Hotel southwards to a place called the "Camino de los Tres Olivos".

And that Camino de los Tres Olivos, "The southern end is more difficult to identify as the 3 olive trees and the way or lane are now long gone and new textile developments well and truly cover them."

As if we are using an old treasure map, the site continues, "After Playa de Baria 2 (large feature sign on wall "Baria 2") there is a restaurant (B2) and a Chiringuito (beach bar) "Barbaria" and after sweeping round these the promenade continues south past the large Vera Garden hotel and apartments complex (hotel not yet finished) - this development has a Moorish style with feature domes (none of the other developments have domes so you can't mistake it - and there are name signs on the gates from the promenade so you can be doubly sure). A cautious judgement of the location of the "Camino de los tres olivos" is that it is about halfway along the apartments section of the Vera Garden complex - so about 2/3rds the way along the stretch of promendade outside the development. "

So it seems to me that the southern end is much further south than what you show on your map. And indeed in the summer I do see naturists, out numbered by non-naturists I must admit, walking along the sidewalk in that area.

I also found that the limits of the Naturist zone (el límite con el Término de Cuevas del Almanzora hasta el Camino de los Tres Olivos) were upheld in the Civil Chamber of the Supreme Court, dated May 28, 2002 (http://naturaworldnaturista.blogspot.com.es/p/contacto.html)

I haven't found anything that tells me that the limits have changed since then. But of course that doesn't mean that it hasn't.

So, after all that, I get back to my question; I was wondering why do you end the Naturist south zone on the map near the beach by "The Mirador de Vera" ?

Thanks again.








Phil B-C

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 09:43:01 PM »
Hi Bob,

Please don't feel cautious about "culture wars" or "touchy subjects", I'm all too happy to discuss anything and everything on this forum providing it remains polite and curtious.

I actually published the very first Vera Playa map on veraplaya.info (I think somwhere around 2005/6) back in the days when they also had a forum. 
Following the first draft, the topic of boundaries/limits at the southern end was (as you can imagine) hotly debated and the "fade" from green to red was subsequently shifted up and down until the majority were in agreement that it was a realistic representation of the situation "on the ground" at the time.

However, one has to take into account that some time later (I forget the actual year) a "wall" of boulders across the beach denoting a new "official" southern limit (complete with official sign) was erected by the council which was considerably north of the current map limit (somewhere near the roundabout at the end of Avenida Tortuga Boba) which significantly reduced the recognised "official" naturist beach. 
Never-the-less, naturists stood their ground, the boulders were eventually removed and the map retained the current fade from naturist to textile which has stood to this day.

As you rightly say, roughly south of the roundabout naturists are seen but they are definitely in the minority so perhaps the beach has found it's own balance (be that official or not) ?

My wife and I have strolled naked along the shoreline in the faded area on many occasions without any negative reactions but one soon reaches a point (significantly north of your limit) where one suddenly realises that one is the only naked person and one subsequently turns back - naturism is, of course, about acceptance not confrontation and "pushing the boundaries" can often backfire !

One must also take into account that in this age of sueing anyone for anything, to publish a map denoting an "official" naturist area which could subsequently be disproved in court by a clever lawyer might leave one open for litigation at a later date !
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 10:16:35 PM by Phil B-C »

FrenchBob

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2017, 02:39:56 PM »
Phil,

Thanks for the historical perspective. It was really interesting. Perhaps what is missing is information "on the ground".  Non Naturists, in absence of any signs on the lampposts (for example), may be entering the Naturist zone without realizing it and Naturists new to the region are unsure of the limits.

Using your " fade from naturist to textile" concept, maybe signs could be placed on lampposts near the borders of the regions.
Avoiding any fixing of borders they could simply inform that, "You are approaching a Naturist region" or the other side of the coin, "You are approaching a Non Naturist region".

I and a friend are interested in defending the Naturist zone, hence my original question.
We observe that the economy is starting to pick up again after the crash of 2008. This is a good thing.
However we fear that all the economic development will be Non Naturist which could have a negative effect on the Naturist zone.
Case in point; we sincerely doubt that Naturists will be welcome in the new commercial center being built less than 5 minutes walk from a Naturist community.

The solution, we think, to this problem is more Naturists. The more Naturists that are attracted to the Vera Playa the stronger their economic force they will be. This we think is the key to defending the Naturist zone.

To that end we are interested in attracting more Naturists to Vera Playa in the Spring and Fall. The Naturist zone is at or near capacity in the Summer months.

Ways to attract more Naturists here would be:

Communicating with Northern Naturists Associations
Publishing the historical Spring and Fall weather information
Encouraging Naturists visitors to "tell their friends"
Pamphlets in several languages
...

In short information and communication.

Slowly, but surely we are meeting "veterans" of the region who think things have gone "down hill" since they first started coming here.
We think that can change. But the change can only come from Naturists themselves.

So Phil thanks again for the information.
Maybe I should have broken this off into another subject, but I wanted you to know what was behind my question.

Bob





Phil B-C

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2017, 05:06:44 PM »
Hi again Bob,

I agree with you, obviously there should have been more official naturist signs erected from the beginning - to the best of my knowledge there has only ever been one (plus, of course, a huge billboard that is long since disappeared). Exactly the reason I started the map in the first place.

The problem now as I see it is “If there are going to be signs, who decides exactly where the definitive boundaries should be ?”

Playing Devil’s advocate, the naturists have no more right to decide the limits than our textile counterparts and to ask the council for an official ruling could be opening Pandora’s box …. Look what happened the last time (2002/3) someone on the council decided that the limits should be defined !
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 06:29:16 PM by Phil B-C »

FrenchBob

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 01:30:51 PM »
Yes I agree, the question of where exactly things start and end is a problem. Which is why I suggested signs that say, "You are approaching a Naturist region".

Would this "rock the boat" and open up a Pandora’s box ? I don't think so. Especially if the signs are part of an art project. Not typical signs.

As to the problems of 2002/3, yes that was terrible. Was it provoked by Naturists ? 
My point being, if we are at the menace of arbitrary decisions we should have no fear of trying to improve our lot.

For the moment things are fine.
I'm just back from the beach and it's a beautiful day with many people on the beach.
It should be like this for the rest of the summer.
But for us residents who live here full time, not just visiting for a week or two, I think we really need to explore ways to defend our Naturist "rights" when all the summer holiday makers have gone.

*****

A bit on the subject of definitive boundaries from another angle...

I remember reading on the forum that several years ago, little signs were proposed to the local shops and restaurants that welcomed Naturists.
Is this something that could be renewed this year ?
Any advice or information you could give would be appreciated.

Phil B-C

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 02:54:29 PM »
Hi Bob,

I have stated my personal opinion but this is beginning to look too much like a debate purely between just the two of us and that is something I do not wish to promote.

You are correct in what you say about the signs for local shops and restaurants (red or green Indalo men).  If you search "Indalo" it will probably bring up the rise (and fall) of the project.

MikeR

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2017, 02:31:56 PM »
I thought I should tell you about my naked walk along the beach today. I went down to the waterline in front of Natsun. I walked along the beach as far as opposite the big BARIA 2 gate. the first person in shorts was about 100 m further on. I then walked back along the promenade and around the south side of Baria 1 reaching Avenida Tortuga Boba opposite the entrance to Bahía de Vera. On this particular occasion there was a greater proportion of nudist in front of Baria ! (50/50) than in Calle Naturaleza (20/80).

Roy

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2017, 08:17:34 PM »
My wife and I prefer the absence of signs marking the extent of the naturist beach.  We sit where we want anywhere from the Vera/Palomares border to Chiringuito Pomodoro and often walk further along the beach. 

We find people with dogs on the beach (which except for dogs for the blind are illegal between March and October) more of a problem than people objecting to naturists.

andreas

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 09:36:25 PM »

We find people with dogs on the beach (which except for dogs for the blind are illegal between March and October) more of a problem than people objecting to naturists.

Absolutely!  The filthy antics of dogs on the beach should be stopped.  It's bad enough on the pavements, when you're wearing shoes, but barefoot on the beach is worse.  And I've seen dogs urinating on sunbeds on the beach.  But their (mainly Spanish) owners just don't care.

tomhorn

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 02:47:10 AM »
Dogs and dog owners are a problem world wide, beach or park.  I wouldn't blame the spanish as I have seen that  behavior in most countries. The owners somehow feel that we should be privileged to see their animals droppings. 

Ellen & Sebb

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 04:53:20 PM »
Smokers on the beach are a major issue too.
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UweK

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 04:14:07 PM »
Hi Ellen and Sebb,
Are you permanent residents?
Nude regards
Uwe

Ellen & Sebb

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Re: Naturist zone
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 01:31:44 AM »
No - we're not.  Are you ?
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